Wow!!! We had a few thoughts but nothing that closed the book on that question. It brought up such a great conversation about God's word and His promises and commands
I love kids and the way they stretch and grow you as parents. It was an amazing question with depth and honesty that you can't even find in most christian adults. So what do you think or have you even ever thought about that?
9 comments:
Yeah, I've thought about that often. I've also been quite taken with questions and comments our little guys pose and make from time to time....sometimes, they shake my foundation (or my perception)
Regarding the question if God loves Satan. I've come to the conclusion, that yes He does - but it's not the same kind of Love that He has for mankind. Satan, a fallen angel, is part of the 'circle' of God's creation, but not in the form that mankind is.
I look at it this way. If I build something, like a new wall, or install a door or window in our house – I really appreciate my work. But the creative work that has been done in our children I more than appreciate. The children are those that return what we sow into them. The things that we put together to serve a practical purpose in our lives return only that which they are made for.
So to, I believe it is with God’s heart for his angels – they were created for a purpose, to serve Him. The return that God gets from them, is just that. While His creation in mankind (His children) offer a much more receptive return because we chose to seek, honor, and worship Him…in His likeness, and in His image.
Not sure if that makes any sense at all, but I'm just thinking "out loud". :)
Wow! I haven't really thought about it before. My brother has pondered stuff like this I believe, so I'm forwarding a link to him, because even if he hasn't come up with an answer, I'm sure the question might intrigue him.
iam4Jesus's answer sounds really good to me.
(I had to remove my other comment because I spelled "God" wrong...it's late and I should be in bed)
Wow. What a great question. I guess I think more about how it must grieve God's heart that such a beautiful creature would fall from grace. God is love, but He hates sin. This is really a tough one.....
What a great question - I think this would be one of the times I say, let's ask the Lord what He thinks about it!
I would have to say yes because God IS love, but there are definitely more layers to it than that. :)
Hi, HandsFreeHeart forwarded this post my way and I couldn't resist.
I think it is a VERY good question. The MOST important part of this whole discussion, I believe, is the inquirer. As I see it, Rocker is posing this question for a transforming purpose . . . and not for acquiring theological knowledge.
Ask, Seek, Knock . . . not for theological facts, but for the aim of being transformed more fully into the image of God. To ask whether God loves Satan is to ask who God is -- not so that you can down another budding (or 'mature') theologian in a dogma-fight, but to know God more intimately so you know who you are . . . because you know, through the wholeness of your being, Who God is.
I must disagree with Iam4jesus on the correspondence of the analogy:
God's love of and joy in humans as his creative work :: Our love of and joy in our children as our creative work
God's love of and joy in angels as his creative work :: our love of and joy in our material creative work
I think the second analogy is incorrect. It should be the same as the first, i.e.:
God's love of and joy in angels as his creative work :: Our love of and joy in our children as our creative work
The reason is that, in the technical sense of the word 'persons', Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are persons; humans are persons; and angels are persons.
The Trinitarian Godhead--according to orthodox creeds, anyway--is three persons, one substance.
Jesus is unique in that he is one person, two natures (divine and human).
Humans are persons, but of one nature (human only).
Angels are persons, of one nature, but it is a different, and at least in our current form, a 'higher' nature than humans:
Humans, as persons, are destined to be 'like' angels (in some way):
Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
Luke 20:35-37
35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.
Angels sinned, and as far as I understand, it is only possible for persons to sin:
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
Jesus is described (apparently referring to the incarnate nature) as 'made a little lower than the angels' - and in that respect I would argue that angels could not be higher than humans unless they were also persons.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
All of this to say, basically, that if God does NOT love Satan with the same kind and intensity of Love that he loves human persons, then, contrary to the Bible, God IS a 'respector of persons' (the KJV version of Acts 10:34) . . .
Not to say that he does not have different PURPOSES for angels and humans, and, with Paul, each kind of body has its own glory . . . but I see no basis to assert that God's love for 'angel persons' is any less, or any more conditional, than his Love for 'human persons'.
I would argue that Rocker REALLY wants to know how vast and full and complete God's Love is, and what that means specifically for who he IS, and who he is becoming.
As to why Christ's sacrifice, and the redemption through that sacrifice, was only given for us 'human persons', I cannot answer with any authority. On the surface, it makes it look like God does love us more. On the other hand, God sends rain on the just and unjust . . .
. . . and I could debate this forever.
So the answer for Rocker, I think, is to press in and seek God even more.
Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and the door will be opened.
I would like to agree with ecclesiastes97's post...and suggest that what you are saying isn't really any different than what I was trying to say.
A differece in the Love that God shows to us than what is shown to the angels is not what I intended....at least in a corporeal sense that we can fathom.
Rather the love is a reflection based on the reason and purpose we are created as compared to the reason and purpose the angels are.
Both are creative works, but angels are not created in His likeness and in His image, and that is what sets us apart.
In addition, 1 Corinthians 6:3 suggests that born again believers will one day judge the angels. What that entails I am not fully aware...
However, in context, Paul was discussing the problem with lawsuits among believers and how we should be able to settle these matters in the local church. (rather than suing and all that as those outside the church) And, almost as a passing thought, he mentions we will one day judge angels. I think Paul believed this was common knowledge among believers, but even today many don’t realize this. What remains unclear to me is to which angels Paul was referring.
OK..getting off topic here. ;)
Wow that was an intense post from ecclesiastes97. Just to let you know I am not here to stir theological debate I just thought it was wonderful that my 3rd grader would want to think about God's word in a deeper manner than memorize verses.
I am also not "arguing" what Rocker needs. I am his mom and his father and I know what he needs along with the Lord. I am also not looking for an "answer" either. His father and I got that area covered thank you.
I apologize if we beagn to debate....certainly don't intend to intrude on your space, and especially on your parenthood...I know I would never want someone else telling me what my child needs (unless I asked them).
Thanks for posting!
Post a Comment